Sunday, May 29, 2011

Ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-changes!

It sometimes hurts to see the future. For a few things in my life, I can do this. I don't know how, but I can and it's not always fun and flowers that I see. Those of you who read Tasha's blog already know that she has discovered the attraction of men and, while I mostly think its funny, it's not all that funny. The reason it doesn't amuse me more is that everything that has happened with Tasha's transition has happened almost EXACTLY as I have seen it. Every single step of it was not what I wanted to see, yet there was. When we were sitting there in the theater watching Thor and she gasped when the god first appeared, I shook my head and smirked. It was definitely amusing, but it confirmed what I knew would be happening.

How long had she assured me that she was 100% lesbian and men were... ew!...? The thought of a guy putting his... yuck! No more of that now. Still, she reassures me that it's all just looking, just like I might look occasionally. She's not going to have some affair or come to me one day and tell me that she is really lusting to try it. I believe that. What I have seen as a result of her new-found interest in men is that she will also discover that her attraction for women will wane and that she will only stay with me because she loves me more than anything. Does that sound like I am devaluing her love for me? I'm not. Everyone knows that love is not enough. Yes, we are also best friends. But best friends who love each other don't necessarily make a successful marriage either. What about my insistence that sex doesn't mean so much to me? I doesn't. But I do like to have it sometimes. So does she. But when both people are thinking about guys when it's happening? Come on! Do we stay together in a happy married friendship?

I'm not seeing doom around the corner. I'm really hoping that when this happens, we will have moved far enough into the relationship and the transition (complete, I'm really hoping) that our marriage will end with us being as close as two friends can be without being married. I'm hoping even more than this that it will never happen. I'm hoping that I will find that being intimate with my spouse is still a good thing, if different. I'm hoping that her fascination with men is simply a fascination and that she remains the adult she is instead of a hormone-driven teenager her drugs tempt her to be.

Our friend B is concerned, too. She finds it both as amusing and as concerning as I do. She doesn't want me to end up a single mom with the dreams of forever with my spouse broken into pieces. She doesn't want me to bear the weight of having to say good-bye to the person I was supposed to never have to say that to.

I'm wondering if there could be a happy middle if there were two mainly heterosexual women in a marriage. The love has not changed. The bond between us has not weakened. NOTHING about our marriage has changed except for her gender and now her sexual orientation. So, for all of my insisting that sex isn't the big thing in our marriage, might that still end it for us, or is the MEMORY of how we felt about each other sexually enough? Can we harness our feelings and make sex work when that time comes?

I don't have to worry about it right now. Sex ain't happening right now. I strive to remember the humor in all of this. For example, I have something else I can tease Tasha about. That's always a good thing.

38 comments:

Kathryn Martin said...

There are those moments in life where your breath is taken away but just that moment of imagination of something. Long before I transitioned, in fact throughout my life I have had what I call steamy moments. Sometimes, directed towards a woman, sometimes a man a moment of immediacy, a breathtaking "gasp". Occasionally I have acted on those moments. I have in a word tried. Those few moments where a man was the target of my lust and I acted on it, I found that the moment in fact was just an imagination, a situational single minded focus, a gasp. The reality of it struck me as so unfulfilled, so repellant in a sense. But then, like Tasha I am before surgery, and who knows what next year will bring.

Do I still gasp? Absolutely, but savoring lust does not always require consummation.

Abby said...

This post makes my heart sink. I admire your strength and I wish you only the best. In my opinion you certainly deserve it.

Teagan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Teagan said...

I'm not happy for either one of you when I read this post, but these are things I've wondered about for you two.

"I'm hoping that her fascination with men is simply a fascination and that she remains the adult she is instead of a hormone-driven teenager her drugs tempt her to be."

Hmmm. Lots I could say on this, but I'll hold my tongue.

My orientation has changed, too. I don't know if a marriage that I was in would survive transition with the orientation of one of the partners changing. I doubt it.

:|

Signed,
A former adult turned into a crazed teenager by drugs

Anne said...

Shaking my head and holding my tongue.

I wish you both nothing but the best and will hope and pray that you both fide a way that works for everybody involved

Common Teri said...

Abby said exactly what I was thinking and how I was feeling.

Natasha said...

It's funny. I read this and it was nothing new to me. Casey and I have had this discussion and while I sometimes worry (more so now than in the past) that I am unsure of how I will see the world through the rest of transition and beyond, I am certain of how I feel about Casey. Certain. Tattooed on my left breast kind of certain. And so come what may, I will love her until my dying day.

xoxo

Anne said...

I have no doubt of that Love that you both have for each other, Tash, but.....Nature being what it is...
Humans being what they are....

Would that we could all live up to our ideals.

Your 'Esposa' sure likes to raise the difficult issues. More power to you , Casey.

Natasha said...

Anne - Tell me about it. Casey is not a shy lady when it comes to difficult things. But, being the person I am, I'm an idealist. So nature be damned, I will try to rise above.

xoxo

Casey said...

@Kathryn - I have no problem with what goes on in her head. Not even marriage can or should keep a person from acknowledging an emotional response to something. Acting upon them is another story. You are at liberty to act at will. She is not. I am not. As long as she is content to keep her lusts in fantasy and dreamland, that's okay with me.

@Abby and Teri - Thank you. It is difficult, but I have no intention of giving up on us ever. I strongly believe that if we ever end our marriage, although it will be heartbreaking, it will be for a reason or reasons that I believe will make both of us much happier and keep us close. There is no blame in what is going on here, so I have no anger or resentment towards Tasha. I only want the best for her, our children and myself.

@Teagan - Oh stop! :-) Am I supposed to mince words when I'm writing stream-of-conscious style? I know it's medication. The simile is poetic. Okay? I'm sorry if I offended. And... Ppppppppbbbt!

@Anne - That's why I've got this stuff on my mind. I have no doubt about my relationship with Tasha, but I also understand the nature of nature and so I am not holding my breath. I am simply having faith in us. :-)

@Tasha - You're so romantical! :-P

Abby said...

Just so's you know, I wasn't suggesting there was anyone to blame, just that you're in a crappy position and my heart breaks for you. And once again I admire your strength.

I hope you and yours are well

Anne said...

I dunno Casey. Having enjoyed sex with men for forty years, I really cannot get too excited about all this lezbo stuff.

I am sure it works for some but...like I said....I jus dunno.....It sure ain't for me. Sure hope you guys can figure something out between you though.

Ariel said...

I thought this was a very even-handed take on a difficult subject. This is the only sentence that made my furrow my brow (and I have enough wrinkles as it is): "I'm hoping that her fascination with men is simply a fascination and that she remains the adult she is instead of a hormone-driven teenager her drugs tempt her to be."

Maybe you were kidding, but sexual orientation is fundamental. I agree that a change in hormone balance has something to do with it. But being on the right "drugs" is fundamental as well.

Sorry, not stating this well. I'd rather go private on this one. It hits very close to home.

Teagan said...

Fair enough Casey, it's good to be honest and not mince words. So I won't, either. :)

I know that you get how profound this transition thing is. Which is why I'm surprised to see comments from you suggesting that the orientation change is purely due to drugs. And also why I was surprised to read this...

"NOTHING about our marriage has changed except for her gender and now her sexual orientation."

That was a head-scratcher. I mean, the statement is written like those two changes are equivalent in impact to Tasha working more hours at a job, or has some new interest that occupies a good deal of her time.

Gender and sexual orientation are *not* small things. I know that you get that. Right? At any rate, I hope you two arrive at a place where you're both content, where ever that place ends up being.

Kathryn Martin said...

Casey, you must have misunderstood my comment. The liberties I took were not while married, but before. I am very monogamous. What I attempted to say, was that not every imagination will test against reality.

I am also not sure that such a moment as you describe is necessarily determinative of the persons sexual orientation who experiences such a moment.

And here I am raising a thorny subject again. I am not entirely sure that a change in sexual orientation is possible given the science involved.

But there are substantial pressures brought to bear that being a real woman means being sexually attracted to men; especially in trans world.

It would suggest that sexual orientation can be reversed, that is cured by just feeding the person the right hormone cocktail. (this would be hormones or change through surgery. And that, the conservatives fundamentalists would absolutely love to hear.

Ariel said...

@Kathryn

If something is true yet plays into the agenda of people like fundamentalists, it's still true, if perhaps politically unfortunate.

I proposed a theory, or perhaps a hypothesis, that sexual orientation is not to women/to both/to men but rather to opposite/to both/to same. Further, I think claims that sexual orientation and sex identity are entirely divorced are erroneous.

Most estrogen-based life forms find men sexually attractive, and vice versa. That's why we were all born. Some estrogen-based life forms are attracted to other women, but that's relatively rare.

I think it would be great if you could substantiate that claim of substantial pressures in the trans world for women to be attracted to men and vice versa. For my part, I never felt any such pressure. Indeed many I knew were attracted to the same sex. My own attraction to men caught me by surprise.

Kathryn Martin said...

Ariel, I was referring to many comments I have read over the last year in which claims were made that real women born transsexual are attracted to men. It led me to write my recent post on Sexual Orientation and Transsexualism.

Being no stranger to the attractiveness of males I found that the imagination did not stand up to reality. That raises questions for me. Likewise, I have yet to see any evidence the brain structures which we claim to evidence brain sex, can modify under the influence of hormone treatment. If that were possible, then transsexualism becomes treatable, that is it could be cured, which makes it a pathology. That I find confusing and so it raises questions for me. It would likewise mean that sexual orientation, that is heterosexual, gay or lesbian orientations can be manipulated by treatment. Given the neurological evidence out there such a thought scares me.

Ariel said...

Casey, sorry for the side comment threadlet.

@Kathryn

Do you mean that the reality did not stand up to imagination? :) I can understand that. In my case, the reality turned out to be better than I imagined. Of course, that's only the reality of one aspect of being attracted to men. I have no idea if I could live with one.

I really don't know why this happened to me, but clearly it needs an explanation. I'm not the only one to whom this has happened.

I did not, however, propose that brain sex can be changed. The evidence is against that. I was talking only about sexual orientation, and if my crackpot theory about other/both/same is correct, then there was really no change for me (or others). We're just on the opposite side of "other" now. Hetero before, hetero after. Of course, as I acknowledged, it does not explain those who were hetero before and homo after or vice versa (I know both kinds).

Anne said...

"I am not entirely sure that a change in sexual orientation is possible given the science involved.

But there are substantial pressures brought to bear that being a real woman means being sexually attracted to men; especially in trans world.

It would suggest that sexual orientation can be reversed, that is cured by just feeding the person the right hormone cocktail. (this would be hormones or change through surgery. And that, the conservatives fundamentalists would absolutely love to hear." ~KM.

I am again forced to respectfully suggest that YOU have NO F**KING CLUE!

Anne said...

YOU are spouting off pure jargon and meaningless psychobabble in an effort to understnd your own confusion.

Forgive me for suggesting that you listen to the voices of experience and stop pontificating on the justification for your fantasies

Casey said...

Okay, let's see...

@Abby - No worries. I didn't think you were suggesting that. :-)

@Anne - I can't say I'm excited about the "lezbo" stuff. I am, however, willing to try. :-)

@Ariel - If you'd like to talk about it more privately, I'd be happy to. :-) and @Teagan - I think what's happened is that I was writing (as I usually do) stream of consciousness. These things do go through my head and I write them as they are thought in there. BUT... but, but, but... I don't take this stuff lightly. I know that the hormones tend to make you ladies feel a bit (or an awful lot, depending upon the person and the amount of medicine) like a teenage girl. I do not dismiss Tasha's feelings, but I am hoping that they are... inflated?... due to that newness of the hormones, much like other aspects of being female have sort of exploded and then calmed down. However, you two must remember that for me personally, sex isn't such a big thing. I am aware that I have struck a nerve for many of you (not my intention), but I think you all are reading into my comments more than is there. Because sex isn't the big thing for me, saying that nothing has changed in our marriage except for gender and sexual orientation means... to me... that the most important parts of OUR MARRIAGE have not changed. Of course these are big things for Tasha. Does that help explain?

@Kathryn - Nope. No misunderstanding. I just think I didn't qualify my own thoughts well. I did not mean to imply that you were a cheater or anything. Sorry for that. :-D Also, I don't at all think that the hormones have done anything to alter her sexual orientation. Not being a scientist, my own theory is that Tasha probably would have been born heterosexual had she been born a girl, just like she was a heterosexual male at one point.

@Anne - This is what blogging is all about, right? Commenting on others' thoughts. But it didn't sound like Kathryn was implying that she knew the Truth about how the whole transsexual condition functions. I suspect that it is different for everyone and, perhaps, sometime the medicines do things that they weren't necessarily intended to do.

I'm going to bed.

Teagan said...

@Kathryn... the fact that orientation changes might give reparative therapy people a case is an argument that I've refuted before... read this.

@Casey... That makes sense.

Casey said...

OH!!!!

@Ariel - Ppppbbbbbtt! (Teagan said I had to!)

@Teagan - :-D

Ariel said...

And we always do what Teagan says, do we? ;-)

Teagan said...

Darn tootin' you do. :P

Miz Know-It-All said...

Casey, (and Tasha)
You are both such wonderful people and the love you have for each other is beyond question. That you are as supportive of each other as any two people could possibly be, is beyond question. That you are both loving and caring parents who put your children's welfare above all else is beyond question... These things are so evident that I have been biting my tongue lest I be the bearer of bad news, but I can't hold my tongue any longer...

I DO know what is before you and with that in mind all I can think is Galveston Texas September 7th 1900... Dear Ones, There is a storm beyond comprehension looming in your near future. A storm that is as unavoidable and merciless as the one that hit Galveston that terrible day. A storm which will change everything! I so wish I had something lighter to say but sometimes the best love is saying that which is not what one is wanting to hear...

This is not controllable or manageable but it is survivable.. When one transitions their sex, One has to place everything one has on the table for the fates and their whims to decide what, if anything remains. For some the price may be light, for others, it is so steep that nothing will be left... I truly wish this were not so, but it is what it is and it is not within our mortal powers to decide...I write this to you with heavy heart and I hope and pray you are able to weather this storm together with a love that will at least allow you to remain the best of friends and loving parent...Who knows? Maybe you will find a way to become a couple again. It's happened before, but it's rare.

Good Luck and God Speed
Miz Know-It-All

IrritatingNerd said...

Holy shit, is everyone always this dramatic? You'd think they uncovered months of cheating ... not finding Thor to be a hottie.  

People fuck who they want to fuck. I mean, how many hetero ladies would go gay for Angelina Jolie? The notion of a fixed orientation is laughable. And this is not quite the relationship apocalypse it's being portrayed as, imo. 

Anne said...

" I mean, how many hetero ladies would go gay for Angelina Jolie?"

BRILLIANT! And VERY well said. The FACT remains however....

"When one transitions their sex, one has to place everything one has on the table for the fates and their whims to decide what, if anything remains"

May the FATES be with you.

Anne said...

@I. Nerd...I visited your blog. Which I found MOST interesting as would the rest of my fellow "posters" here.

Unfortuately I was unable to leave a comment with wordpress devolving into a "closed loop".

Casey said...

@Ariel - Don't you know that you want to make the muscle happy? You want them on YOUR side. :-)

@Miz - The storm is here, ma'am. We're soaking in it. Most people who know me will tell you that I can stand up to the worst storms. How we will come out of it on the other side is, admittedly, still spinning in the wind, but as I said, I'm hopeful. It is my expectation that SRS will not really make Tasha any more or less oriented in any sexual direction. The hormones have done that. Thank you for your kind wishes and words of warning. It is much appreciated. :-)

@INerd - I, for one, find AJ quite unattractive. I would never ever EVER want her to touch me, thank you. I do, however, agree that sexual orientation is not black or white. As Trey Parker and Matt Stone (South Park) say, "We're all a little gay." :-) But, as fluid as the orientation rainbow is, we all TEND toward a particular spot on the spectrum. It's not that Thor is a big deal: its the fact that Tasha's once fixed spot on the spectrum has shifted in a direction that is not exactly in sync with my spot... And no, it's not always this dramatic. I just tend to say the right things to make it seem that way. :-D

Anne said...

Casey. I love your humor and your strength. However...boys wil be boys and girls will be girls. Once Tasha has her "new toy" up and running, it would seem highly unlikely and counter-intuitive to NOT want to "test it out".

Now the "GOOD NEWS" is that a "suitible subject" might not be "available", in which case....

I apologize for beig so "clinical", but "them thars the facts, ma'am, just the facts", as I see them.

Casey said...

@Anne - Well, remember that there are toys, you know. :-) That is, after all, what I'll be left with, right? But here's the other thing: we're married. We're not just married: we're best friends and soul mates. We don't have a typical marriage. I have looked at men over the years and thought about how attractive they were, but I surely wasn't going to do anything about it. Tasha might be finding men attractive, but she has no interest in sacrificing her marriage for urges she might have. Heck, i'm starting to enter that phase in my life where I'n starting to get urges. I'm not interested in giving up on what is otherwise the most amazing relationship in the universe because of sexual urges.

We can not say for certain how everything will go, but I can say for certain that I will not let sex determine the success or failure of my marriage. I'd like to think that I have more control over myself than that. I mean hey, it's not like we're talking about FOOD!! :-D

Anne said...

I hear you Casey. I kinda think tha things WILL work out for you.

Becca said...

I am missing something here ? All this chat about hormones and changes just muddies the water. What about elective choice ? Tasha is free to make her mind up and just because the wind may have changed a little doesn't mean that she is going to go off and have sex with anyone else. Anyone would think from these comments that she will have no option but to go with any man who takes her fancy.

Surely all this is just chaff - you have stuck beside each other through a lot. You have a family together and want the best for each other - and want to stay together. Why would anyone want go throw that away.

All I hear is a lot of honesty - that doesn't mean anything other that you love and trust each other

Becca

Debra said...

Wow I can kind of relate. My ex and I separated and divorced right around the time I started to transition but this did start happening to me and I've often wondered if we had stayed together...how that would have worked. I mean primarily, I consider myself a heterosexual woman now so how would that have worked? I really don't know but I wish you both the best! *hugs*

Dani said...

Casey,

Please don't listen to the "nay sayers" and doubters. You know your marriage and your partner better than any of us. You are right, sex is a part of a marriage but doesn't have to define it. My wife an I are going through the same thing regarding my gender orientation, but she doesn't share your open-mindedness toward my expression. I feel like you have so much going for you and that you two are amazing to be moving through this transition together, united and with so much love. I know it can be hard, but I'm also learning that my wife's love hasn't changed even though she draws the line at "the lesbian stuff". She isn't willing to even try that. You've had some interesting comments on this, and I think that people really missed a lot of what you had to say and focused on some of the negatives rather than your amusement at the situation and your ability to adapt to all of this. You are taking this journey with your spouse, and every turn will bring new insights. The point is that neither of you is letting go of the love and friendship. No matter what else happens, you two will still have each other if you can hold on to that much, and perhaps a lot more given that you present such an amazing attitude about the whole thing. I wish you both luck because you both deserve it. ~ Dani

joy said...

I am transitisioning -- slowly -- with the love of my wife/partner of 23 years. The attraction to men thing is there now...but as I explained to my thereapist and my wife, I didn't act on my attraction to woman not my wife for the past twenty three years -- why should it be any different now? I just have a new group to look at!

God Bless and hang in there!

Casey said...

To Dani, Joy, and All -

I am about to write another post, but I wanted to reply to this thread beforehand.

Dani, I am sorry that your wife is, for whatever reason, not willing to consider "alternate" ways of being intimate, but I have to say that I felt the same way at a point. In fact, I still don't think I will try certain things (without getting into too much detail here). For example, there is something that feels really good but frankly always also made me feel weird receiving, simply because I don't think anybody's face belongs near certain parts of my body. So, I don't suppose I will be too willing to try that on her. BUT, since even heterosexual couples are known to use toys, that's where I kinda focused my attention. We're still on hold with the intimacy for the moment, but since Tasha's going to have her SRS next summer (assuming we have the money), it won't be long before the subject comes up again and I'll have to experiment.

The other thing to keep in mind is that even if I do draw a certain line, that doesn't mean we can't figure something else out. No, I don't subscribe to open marriages. I'm talking about doing what we do feel comfortable with and accepting it, since the rest of our relationship is just fine. Dani, perhaps your spouse will feel the same way one day if she truly does love you and does not want to be without you.

To Joy and all of you other ladies who have discussed your interest in men... Joy, you have said what Tasha has said and it makes sense. Just because she is "looking" at men does not mean she is going to do anything about it. As it happens, however, I got her to admit that she "thinks" she's bisexual, but since she'll never actually find out if man parts would make her shiver all over or not, who cares? :-)